Curse

Darkrouge101 · Jul 30, 2005, 06:20 PM // 18:20

I've been reading around the forums quite a bit, and coupled with pvp experience, I've come to one conclusion. Nature's Renewal blows.

So, has anyone come up with a feasable way to counter nature's renewal, other than setting up your characters to use it (and using nature's renewal yourselves)?

ComMan · Jul 30, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

There is none except to be in a group that has no enchantments or hexes.

Deathlord · Jul 30, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Not really... you can interrupt it before it is down but theres nothing to stop the effects once it rises from the ground. If you're doing HOH just bring as little enchantments as possible since theres usually more than one team with it considering you fight so many.

ElderAtronach · Jul 30, 2005, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Untrue. Most enchantments and hexes can be recast relatively quickly in comparison to NR which has a 60 s. recharge. The only caveat is wasted energy. I don't think NR by itself is *that* broken. I do think its use in conjunction with Oath Shot *is broken*. If Oath Shot + QZ didn't = NR every 10 seconds, I don't think it would really be an issue.

As it stands though, bring 2 part mesmer with signet of humility. If they have QZ up (and they should - otherwise your team would have a good chance to beat them anyway), the signet recharges in 10 seconds, so you can keep the spirit spammer's Oath Shot blocked forever if you stagger the timing on signet of humility. No oath shot = no spirit spammer. The problem lies in situations where they have more than 1 main spiriter, but I think that would be very rare.

Another option is to bring AoE nukers with knockdowns to interrupt nature rituals, but that's not nearly as reliable as signet of humility.

desktopbob · Jul 30, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

No there simply is no counter to nature's renewal. You're either running it or you get beaten by it. As for the Oath shotting comment, its incredibly easy to run NR on multiple characters. With QZ down, that's a 30s recharge time. Now, with 3 people running it that's the same amount of spam as a single oath shotter. Suppose, as is often the case anyway, you go up against a team running even more than 3 copies? What's more, you don't even need any points into wilderness survival to cast it, so anyone who can go secondary ranger can be running it with no downsides.

Eder · Jul 30, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Desktopbob hit the nail on the head there: a primary ranger with Oath Shot and Quickening Zephyr, and a couple secondary rangers as backups are all you need to maintain Nature's Renewal.

It's pretty hard to counter by any means other than interrupting every single attempt at NR or Oath Shot. Heh.

Dzan · Jul 30, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

I like Natures Renewal. Believe me, if there was no effective enchantment removal you would see battles between two builds that do infinite damage and can do infinite healing that would last for an hour or more until someone made a mistake.

My idea of PVP fun is not a battle between my unbeatable combination of enchantments against your unbeatable combination of enchantments.

rii · Jul 30, 2005, 10:01 PM // 22:01

There used to be ways around all the enchants. Remember the days of rending the target before spiking em? or lingering curse or whatever. actually, sometimes you still need that but with nr granted, there really isnt any point. When I get a guild the probable outcome will be pure damage and pure healing with ranger interrupter and nr spammer instead of mesmers. Then wait for the nrerf bat

Ollj · Jul 30, 2005, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Holy *funny censoring*ing noob shit.
Just make some arrows miss and smithe the hell our of thoose rangers, knock em down a bit and use some AoE and condition spreading, most of them are not very smart because it doesnt need a single brain cell to run spirit spam.

Ive killed far too many Ranger builds and died with to many of them to fear them anymore.

The only reason why Rangers are still active is because thewr are still Air spike builds in the tombs, an even more stupid build to run (it works ONLY because Warriors and monks are overused), and its inferior to the ranger build.

Darkrouge101 · Jul 30, 2005, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

Holy *funny censoring*ing noob shit.
Just make some arrows miss and smithe the hell our of thoose rangers, knock em down a bit and use some AoE and condition spreading, most of them are not very smart because it doesnt need a single brain cell to run spirit spam.

Ive killed far too many Ranger builds and died with to many of them to fear them anymore.

The only reason why Rangers are still active is because thewr are still Air spike builds in the tombs, an even more stupid build to run (it works ONLY because Warriors and monks are overused), and its inferior to the ranger build.

Hmm yeah that doesn't help at all. How about an actual strategy?

Decent english would be nice as well.

rii · Jul 30, 2005, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Ollj, a nr spam doesnt neccesarily mean a ranger team, although your sort of right. However, ranger teams are hard to stop because they shaft so many tactics with quickening, nr, etc.
Not to insult, but just because youve owned/ been owned ranger teams doesnt mean they suck, it means the people executing them didnt do it right.

Drakron · Jul 30, 2005, 10:52 PM // 22:52

The only counter I can think is spam EoE so the other team have a problem, if they kill EoE spirits they kill their own spirits and if they killed your party they are hurting thenselves.

rii · Jul 30, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

So the counter to spirit spam is spirit spam? lol nice.
Maybe someone running barrage? does it work on spirits?
Whastmore, a smiter.... obviously if they dont get enchat removal, but i suppose you could put an oath shot mo/r smiter, and let him spam low stuf like symbol of wrath etc..... most teams put there spirits next to each other etc. ill give it a go tommorow, see what.

Darkrouge101 · Jul 30, 2005, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakron

The only counter I can think is spam EoE so the other team have a problem, if they kill EoE spirits they kill their own spirits and if they killed your party they are hurting thenselves.

Somehow I don't think the EoE spam would work. It would take too long, rendering most of your enchants/hexes useless for most of the match.

desktopbob · Jul 30, 2005, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakron

The only counter I can think is spam EoE so the other team have a problem, if they kill EoE spirits they kill their own spirits and if they killed your party they are hurting thenselves.

EoE won't do anything against nature's renewal because renewal takes effect the moment it's cast. Once it has been cast, it has already had its effect (enchantments and hexes are gone) and killing the spirit won't do anything. EoE can be moderately effective against most other spirits, but only if the opposing team isn't spamming terribly frequently.

wheel · Jul 31, 2005, 02:24 AM // 02:24

by the time that nature's renewal is cast, the damage is done. the fact that it can be recast easily every 10 seconds or faster is even worse. "taking out the ranger" isn't a viable strategy either because their team is built on having very few enchantments, and most other non-NR strategies get owned by having them stripped every 10 seconds. it's a huge energy drain to recast the enchantments, as well it's obviously much easier to interrupt those enchantments while they're being cast.

the people who are using nature's renewal are the same people who are crying for a nerf. it's one of the few good disenchanting skills in the game, and massively unbalanced and overpowered. NR drastically reduces dynamics in the metagame because it makes you either have a low enchantment/hex build with NR, or skills that work well with NR. there's a large portion of skills in guild wars that are enchantments, and NR throws all that stuff out the window. NR needs to be made an elite first of all, and it needs to have a scalar modifier on its effect. then, perhaps its range could be made into the size of a ward or something. for example:

Nature Ritual {Elite}. Create a level 1-8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, 1-3 enchantments and hexes are removed. For 1-126 seconds, enchantments and hexes take twice as long to cast. This Spirit dies after 1-126 seconds.

Then, the rest of the enchantment removal could be buffed up (a lot) as well. I'm not a game designer, but something like that would make a lot more sense in its current overpowered state.

Neo-LD · Jul 31, 2005, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

by the time that nature's renewal is cast, the damage is done. the fact that it can be recast easily every 10 seconds or faster is even worse. "taking out the ranger" isn't a viable strategy either because their team is built on having very few enchantments, and most other non-NR strategies get owned by having them stripped every 10 seconds. it's a huge energy drain to recast the enchantments, as well it's obviously much easier to interrupt those enchantments while they're being cast.

the people who are using nature's renewal are the same people who are crying for a nerf. it's one of the few good disenchanting skills in the game, and massively unbalanced and overpowered. NR drastically reduces dynamics in the metagame because it makes you either have a low enchantment/hex build with NR, or skills that work well with NR. there's a large portion of skills in guild wars that are enchantments, and NR throws all that stuff out the window. NR needs to be made an elite first of all, and it needs to have a scalar modifier on its effect. then, perhaps its range could be made into the size of a ward or something. for example:

Nature Ritual {Elite}. Create a level 1-8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, 1-3 enchantments and hexes are removed. For 1-126 seconds, enchantments and hexes take twice as long to cast. This Spirit dies after 1-126 seconds.

Then, the rest of the enchantment removal could be buffed up (a lot) as well. I'm not a game designer, but something like that would make a lot more sense in its current overpowered state.

If the range is shrunk that much, the cast time should go down to 3 seconds. Otherwise youd never hit anything.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 31, 2005, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Looking back on it all, I was thinking that spirit spam teams can be countered by teams using non-hex/enchantment based skill sets.

What this means is you end up with people utilizing stances and preparations and other buffs which can be quite good and further more, if what they say is true and NR spammer spirit teams don't have a strong offense [due to most of their skills being non attack sprits], then a good offensively minded team should just outright kill them by simply outdamaging them.

It turns into a battle of attrition, albeit a very LOONG one. The team that can deal more damage should win. The team that can't heal enough will lose...

Sounds pretty basic but unless I can be told otherwise, I can't think of any other way aside from I'LL SPIRIT SPAM YOUR SPIRIT SPAM TO SPAMM!!!

Van the Warrior · Jul 31, 2005, 06:49 AM // 06:49

just use distracting shot or something on the ranger...i mean geeze im a spirit spammer and it feels to me like days laying down spirits mid combat or choke the crap out of him with choking gas + oath shot

Warlawk · Jul 31, 2005, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van the Warrior

just use distracting shot or something on the ranger...i mean geeze im a spirit spammer and it feels to me like days laying down spirits mid combat or choke the crap out of him with choking gas + oath shot

and when there are 2 rangers, AND a couple warriors with /r secondary or something just to drop that spirit? spirit spammer team. point being locking down one person wont do squat.